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Re: Hoot Drank the CoolAid

PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2023 11:00 pm
by Texas Sheepdawg
I don’t have any left in stock. You’d have to go back to my bench test data on the reloading posts. The only ones I have now are the 230 grain full metal jacket, brass jackets that I haven’t even tested yet.

Re: Hoot Drank the CoolAid

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:31 am
by Texas Sheepdawg
Yes Hoot. It was the freight train at 44.5Grains of LilGun shot out of my AR15 with the 1:24”twist.

Re: Hoot Drank the CoolAid

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2023 4:39 am
by Hoot
Spring has sprung up here in the great white north. Though there are still mounds of snow where it was piled up from the snowblowers, the general layer is melting quickly. Shouldn't be any left after this week of 70's and more importantly, not getting below freezing at night. The frost is still not out, so its pretty soupy.

Bottom line: Today I will be taking the new rig out for its first range visit. Need to zero the scope and have some 225 FTX loads, that are known performers in my 1:24 AR. It will be interesting to see how they equate to this 1:16 twist. Then my second experiment will be using the same bullets, loaded long. As in into the lands. Have a ladder test of different charges to try. Taking the mic with me to evaluate case head growth as the speed ramps up. Should be fun though I don't know what to expect from this lighter rig with recoil. My AR is super heavy by design and is a pussy cat to shoot. It actually has a SS lower. They were made for a few years by DPMS when they were here. Rare as hen's teeth. I can shoot it all day in a tee shirt, from the bench without getting a sore shoulder.

Of course, I will report in as soon as I process the data. Stay tuned...

Hoot

Re: Hoot Drank the CoolAid

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:09 pm
by Hoot
A little late but better than never.

First Time out with the 22" Bolt Action 450b
While that thumb hole stock may look sexy, it used to house the same action, but with a .223 fluted bull barrel. In keeping with that previous caliber, the recoil pad was all but non-existent. More like a 1/4-3/8 inch rubber pad. Bad JuJu! After 15 shots of that, I remembered that I had a Limbsaver slip on pad in the truck door. By then, the damage was done and even with that, the recoil from this light weight rifle was only a little less brutal. I have to say, I've grown more sensitive to recoil over the years but the lack of a heavy weight, semi-auto action, really made a big difference in perceived recoil. More than I care to subject my shoulder, that I had surgery on, to. Think of me what you will but this barrel will be offered to a new home soon. It delivered impressive velocity and the same accuracy as the 20" AR15 with AR15 power loads but to be honest, its not worth it and this was with only 225gr FTX bullets. I continued to shoot another 12 shots with the Limbsaver, testing what behavior I could get with them loaded long, into the lands. That was my 2nd experiment. Unlike the first 15 shots, with the 225s seated to the cannelure, I took advantage of the increased powder capacity while dropping burn rate to take advantage of the 22 inch barrel and used H110. Lots of H110. Those were a ladder of 3-shots each increment from 47gr up to 48.5gr in half grain steps. Average velocities for 3 shots each started at 2682 and went up to 2764 then flattened out. While boasting impressive velocities, the endeavor was a waste of reloading components because quite honestly, those 225's don't like being loaded into the lands. While the loads seated to the cannelure and having a 38gr charge, Ala AR15, shot to excellent groups from .5 to .75 inches at 100 yds, the long, heavy charge loads all averaged around 2 inches at 100 yds. Plenty good enough for minute of deer but my hunting days are behind me due to my physical constraints. I've become more of a precision chaser with the other 5 calibers I'm experimenting with. I'll leave the fire breathing to you younger guys with good shoulders. Despite the effort swapping out barrels and taking one for the team, I'd say my short, happy life, with the bolt action 450b was educational but that's the only good thing I can say about it.

Before I forget. The velocity in that 1:16 twist barrel was higher than I ever got with the 1:24 AR barrel with 38gr of Lil Gun, even taking into consideration, the small amount of borrowed gas needed to cycle the action. Believe what you wish but I will continue to believe that the faster twist increases the pressure, which equates to higher velocity in this caliber.

Also, I measured the before and after diameter at the web on every shot, with a micrometer to evaluate case head growth with the heavier loads. My loads grew from starting at +.0002 to +.0005 inches with the heavy loads, which no doubt is a testimony to the tighter tolerance chamber afforded by a bolt action over an autoloader.

Rock on you bolt action fans!

Hoot

Re: Hoot Drank the CoolAid

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 8:23 am
by coyote wacker
Really think that loads in the 38'000 psi range give good to great groups is because of lower recoil...in a bolt action start adding more powder and increasing pressure-velocity and the gun that gave small groups starts to kick back and groups start to open up....
Start pushing velocity where pressure is 60'000 psi and the 450 Bushmaster really changes into a BIG GAME cartridge and where you need properly constructed bullets to do a proper job....

Re: Hoot Drank the CoolAid

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2023 2:33 pm
by Smithjdsr
Well, for punching holes really close together at ranges, one needn’t reshape the back of one’s shoulders to resemble a taco shell. And, as has been pointed out, more manageable recoil might even result in more venison. So I don’t blame you. My trick shoulder seems still to be able to absorb some recoil, but it’s only a matter of time…

Sorry your foray into the world of Bushy by bolt was not more fulfilling. Though not a precision rifle, I’ll leave my Ruger American 450B in the hunting rotation for a while. I enjoy shooting the AR, but a bolt gun is my preference in the woods.

Re: Hoot Drank the CoolAid

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:31 am
by Texas Sheepdawg
I guess I forgot to ask, but did you have a brake on that rifle?
As for your velocity results with the 1:16 twist, I saw the same effects. That is why I backed way off on my loads. I never know when I might be using around for my A.R. 15 or my boat action or my single shot. I definitely do not want to put any more of those 44+ grains of Lil gun FMJs through either my bolt action or my single shot both which have the 1:16 twist.
There were definitely pressure signs through those rifles. Scary signs.
I’m sorry you don’t like the bolt action game. But if you don’t have one already, maybe you should get a break put on that thing. My single action and my bolt action are really fun to shoot and even my younger cousins enjoy shooting them.
IMG_4656.jpeg
IMG_4656.jpeg (39.19 KiB) Viewed 8125 times

Re: Hoot Drank the CoolAid

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 11:34 am
by dantiff3
Hoot, Those results are amazing for this cartridge! but the fact still remains that you can't change physics ; ) The whole, equal and opposite reaction thingy HA HA HA

That barrel make someone a really nice rifle and at a GREAT price!! I agree with what's already been said. Put a brake on that thing! I've shot my 16" RAR with the brake on and off and also a suppressor on it and the brake reduces the hit by far the best. My young kids shoot it with the brake on. The "can" helps a lot but I think it makes the recoil pulse seem longer than the pulse with the brake. Either way, I'm glad you dabbled and saw for yourself what you wanted to ; )
Dan

Re: Hoot Drank the CoolAid

PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:59 pm
by Hoot
dantiff3 wrote:Hoot, Those results are amazing for this cartridge! but the fact still remains that you can't change physics ; ) The whole, equal and opposite reaction thingy HA HA HA

That barrel make someone a really nice rifle and at a GREAT price!! I agree with what's already been said. Put a brake on that thing! I've shot my 16" RAR with the brake on and off and also a suppressor on it and the brake reduces the hit by far the best. My young kids shoot it with the brake on. The "can" helps a lot but I think it makes the recoil pulse seem longer than the pulse with the brake. Either way, I'm glad you dabbled and saw for yourself what you wanted to ; )
Dan


Sad to say, I had the brake on it. Brakes don't help with Newton's 3rd Law however.
With a bolt action that weighs half as much as my 450b AR, the recoil was no surprise.
I've said this before and I'm not downplaying the power a bolt action can generate but this caliber is plenty lethal using the AR platform that it was originally designed for.

Hoot

Re: Hoot Drank the CoolAid

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:06 am
by Texas Sheepdawg
Well rats. Maybe this would be a fun alternative.
https://youtu.be/Vjr5Mt9wwRE