Okay... ready to start reloading for the Hornady 250 FTX

[Clipity]

Just back from the range after firing my first reloaded cartridges. On the right is the group of 20 Hornady factory loads. On the left below are the results with 20 reloaded rounds. I changed the scope settings between the group at 11 o'clock and those more toward the center for the reloads. Don't know where the two fliers came from. Must have been a wind gust. Of course, some of you will consider all 20 to be a group of fliers, but nothing blew up and all of the rounds fired.

I am always happy when my reloads go bang and not BOOM, in fact I have some .45acp that I need to go fire off and see if I get bang or BOOM.
BTW good grouping and I can't wait to get out and shoot my new 450b.

[Jim in Houston]

Sometimes flyers are the first shot out of a clean barrel. Did you clean you barrel between factory and reloads? With the chrome bore, I always fire a couple of shots and leave it as is when I hunt. That is what I like about the chrome bore on the 450.

These were not the first shots, so I just attribute the fliers to my poor shooting - loss of concentration on the sight picture, improper breath control, etc. I did notice that the groups shifted during firing though. I fired four groups of 20. The first (factory loads) were a bit to the right, but I did not adjust the scope before I fired the second 20, which were reloads, so that I could compare groups. This is shown below. The pattern shifted noticeably to the left, and remained there for the next two groups of 20 (pictured in a previous post). I attributed this to the barrel heating up or laying down some copper during the first group.

I did not clean the barrel between loads. I did a break-in the first time I fired it some months ago - fire one, clean and repeat 4 more times, fire 5 clean and repeat 4 more times, fire 10 and clean. However, I note on the Hornady web site that they think that a break-in routine is not necessary.

[Jim in Houston]

Question on powders. I have been reloading with LG using the 250 gr FTX and the recommended loads from the Hornady Handbook, 8th edition. I noted in the recent Hornady 2012 Product Catalogue that they are recommending Hodgdon Leverevolution (and maybe Hodgdon SuperPerformance) for FTX bullets. However, the Handbook does not have any loading data for the Leverevolution powder for the Bushmaster 450.

Has anyone used Hodgon Leverevolution, and if so, what weights and any notes on performance?

[Hoot]

Question on powders. I have been reloading with LG using the 250 gr FTX and the recommended loads from the Hornady Handbook, 8th edition. I noted in the recent Hornady 2012 Product Catalogue that they are recommending Hodgdon Leverevolution (and maybe Hodgdon SuperPerformance) for FTX bullets. However, the Handbook does not have any loading data for the Leverevolution powder for the Bushmaster 450.

Has anyone used Hodgon Leverevolution, and if so, what weights and any notes on performance?

I've never seen a powder made and marketed for a specific bullet model regardless of caliber. I suspect they were generalizing based upon the typical calibers encountered with a particular line of bullets.

Be skeptical of bullet manufacturers who try tyo plant a suggestive seed in your head regarding a specific powder that is best for a bullet they manufacture, when they also offer loaded ammunition that just so happens to use that powder with that bullet. IE You can say that when cooking shrimp scampi, you use butter and it tastes good, but you cant expand upon that and say anytime you prepare a dish that uses shrimp, it has to also have butter as an ingredient.

Hoot

[wildcatter]

Question on powders. I have been reloading with LG using the 250 gr FTX and the recommended loads from the Hornady Handbook, 8th edition. I noted in the recent Hornady 2012 Product Catalogue that they are recommending Hodgdon Leverevolution (and maybe Hodgdon SuperPerformance) for FTX bullets. However, the Handbook does not have any loading data for the Leverevolution powder for the Bushmaster 450.

Has anyone used Hodgon Leverevolution, and if so, what weights and any notes on performance?

I've never seen a powder made and marketed for a specific bullet model regardless of caliber. I suspect they were generalizing based upon the typical calibers encountered with a particular line of bullets.

Be skeptical of bullet manufacturers who try tyo plant a suggestive seed in your head regarding a specific powder that is best for a bullet they manufacture, when they also offer loaded ammunition that just so happens to use that powder with that bullet. IE You can say that when cooking shrimp scampi, you use butter and it tastes good, but you cant expand upon that and say anytime you prepare a dish that uses shrimp, it has to also have butter as an ingredient.

Hoot

A BIG 10-4, on Hoots statements! Besides which, Hodgon's Leverevolution/SuperPerformance line of powders are WAY do slow for the 450b. Speeds might be in the 1000fps area, using them, and sooting so bad, I wouldn't be surprised that the case totally collapsed sideways, as if laid on a table and smashed with a hammer, keep in mind that if this happens, it'll happen in the chamber.

The fact that they recommend the aforementioned powders for ftx bullets, they are for far different cartridges..

..t

[Jim in Houston]

Thanks Hoot and WC. Just bought another pound of LG.

[Siringo]

LeverEvolution and Superformance are blends ONLY for specific calibers tested by Hodgdon. LE is in the WW748 burn rate and SF is slower than than. In Hornady's loaded cartridges using these new type of blended powders (blended is a misnomer as they are not two different powders mixed together) they were using up to 7 different blends. To bring these to the commercial market, they settled on the two mentioned here and tweeked them to cover a wider variety, but they may not perform as well as their cartridge line. IF any of this makes sense.

As an example --- I have been using a wildcat cartridge called the 25 DTI. Actually a 6.8 SPC necked to 25 caliber and then the shoulder moved from 28 degrees to 30. I was hoping to achieve 250-3000 Savage velocities with this cartridge using 100 grain bullets spit out of an 18 inch barrel. WW748, gave me the highest velocities, but only around 2675 fps ---- not where I wanted to go, which was 2800 fps +. There is no published data on this, but I noticed that Hodgdon listed the 25-35 WCF as a candidate for LE powder. With the 25 DTI and the 25-35 being somewhat the same capacity, I lit my hair on fire and purchased and can and went for it.

In the end, using a 100 grain swift, I got 2800 fps and sub moa accuracy. The peak pressure of this powder is a longer duration that the current crop of canister powders. Using gas guns, this can create a problem - having to high of gas port pressure. In the 223, it is recommended that a rifle length gas system be used versus a carbine length because of the pressure curve.

SOOOOO --- the LE and SF will not work in the 450B. Long and short of it.

[Jim in Houston]

Geez. How little I know about powders and how they work.

[Jim in Houston]

OK, I want to drag the dead horse across the room again and see if I have this straight. The subject is crimping and the Hornady four die set. Since it has been six months since I last reloaded, I went over my notes, including clips from various places in this board, and ended up confused (again).

For sure, unless the bullet will not seat, the expander die is not required.

The seater die imparts a roll crimp, which can affect case length, and it (a) should note be used for crimping or (b) can be used if the correct COL and case mouth dimensions are achieved.

The "preferred" method would be to seat the round to the correct COL with the seating die, then use the crimping die to get the desired taper crimp. This involves backing the crimping part of the seater die away from just touching the empty case with the press ram extended, locking it down in that position, then setting the bullet seating stem to get the correct COL.

Can anyone confirm, or add to this?

Thanks.

[Hoot]

OK, I want to drag the dead horse across the room again and see if I have this straight. The subject is crimping and the Hornady four die set. Since it has been six months since I last reloaded, I went over my notes, including clips from various places in this board, and ended up confused (again).

For sure, unless the bullet will not seat, the expander die is not required.

Yep, careful alignment should allow you to start the bullet. Of course, you should touch up the inside chamfer with a light twirl of the chamfer tool to make sure there is no burr to catch the heel of the bullet.

The seater die imparts a roll crimp, which can affect case length, and it (a) should not be used for crimping or (b) can be used if the correct COL and case mouth dimensions are achieved.

A) Consensus has been that it not be used. I have not personally seen this tenet substantiated through experimentation, but the premise makes sense.

The "preferred" method would be to seat the round to the correct COL with the seating die, then use the crimping die to get the desired taper crimp. This involves backing the crimping part of the seater die away from just touching the empty case with the press ram extended, locking it down in that position, then setting the bullet seating stem to get the correct COL.

Correct again. I back it away 1 turn. Measure your brass for the longest case and use it to set the depth. If by chance, you used the shortest case, you could still wind up imparting a roll crimp to a longer one. After first firing, I've had cases within a batch vary from 1.678 to 1.698 length, though the majority of them span a narrower range like 1.689 to 1.693.

As for the taper crimp die, adjust it's depth in the press so that it crimps the very mouth for adequate neck tension. Neck tension being critical for consistent performance and to prevent undue pulling when the bullet is chambered. More so if it is removed unfired and chambered repeatedly. The exact dimension necessary will vary slightly depending upon the diameter of your bullet. Text book example IIRC is .478. I have found .475 to .476 yielded better results for me. Don't worry about headspacing. In an experiment, I taper crimped a dummy round down to .465 and it still caught the chamber lip with authority. I could have tried further, but that was enough to prove my point. Obviously, too tight a taper crimp will distort the front of the bullet and possibly impact accuracy, hence the recommended .475-.476. The slower the powder, the greater the impact the neck tension has upon it's efficient ignition. The heavier the bullet, the less impact since it is harder to get moving by virtue of it's weight anyway.

Let us know how your range day goes. I hope to get one or two in this weekend. The weather is supposed to be perfect. Right now, I'm fleshing out loads for a .260 Remington LR-308. Big, heavy, 24" bull barrel and you can shoot it off your chin if you wanted. Not a poodle shooter by any means though. Won't be long before that is worked out and I'm back to where I left off with the 450B last season.

Hoot