Okay... ready to start reloading for the Hornady 250 FTX

[pitted bore]

Anyone know of a source for the Hornady OEM bullets?

Jim-
As of 9 pm EDT on Thursday, 31 March, Grafs was showing them as being in stock: http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/6553

Good luck.
--Bob

[Hoot]

Now that I have all my reloading equipment ready to go and have collected my brass from the last range session, all I need are bullets. I have an order in with Hornady (part of their current promotion), which they expect to ship in June!!!!!. Midway was listing them on backorder with expected availability 3/31/11 - until I checked today and they have revised that date to 5/22/11.

Anyone know of a source for the Hornady OEM bullets?

I got a deal for you. I'll trade you even up, an unopened box of Those for an unopened box of These

Hoot

[Jim in Houston]

Thanks, Hoot. Not having any of "these" I can't really trade for any of "those". But I found some "those" on gunbroker.com (with 22 minutes to spare in the auction), and they are on the way. And I have saved the URL for "those" for future reference.

[Hoot]

Thanks, Hoot. Not having any of "these" I can't really trade for any of "those". But I found some "those" on gunbroker.com (with 22 minutes to spare in the auction), and they are on the way. And I have saved the URL for "those" for future reference.

Glad it worked out in the long haul. A fellow from another forum is sending me a box and a partial box of these that he had left over from reloading, so a rising tide lifts all ships.

Hoot

[Jim in Houston]

OK. After several months of getting all the equipement together, building a loading table for attachment to my Sears Workmate in my garage (don't have a basement, backyard shed, or any other place), I spent last Saturday calibrating my powder dispenser and Sunday setting up my dies. I have "loaded" several empty cases in the process, and they look a lot like the factory loads, so I think I am good to go. However, two questions:

What do you use the fourth die for in the Hornady die set? I can readily identify the sizing/decapping, seating, and expander dies, but not the other one, which is one piece and has a hole all the way through it. I called the Hornady tech department, and my understanding is that it is used to push the entire case through to get it round again, in case it is a little oval? Is that correct? When do I need to use it, e.g., do I need to run every case through it just to check, or only those that may be visibly out of round? Since most other die sets only have three (or even two) dies, not sure if it is really necessary. BTW, the "instructions" that come with the die set don't even mention this die.

In setting the seating die, there is a lot involved in actually loading a bullet to the correct COL and then setting the crimp, then resetting the seating die body. Can I just put a factory cartridge in the die and adjust the seating die body and adjustment screw until they just apply pressure to the crimp and bullet on the factory cartridge?

Thanks for any advice.

[Hoot]

OK. After several months of getting all the equipement together, building a loading table for attachment to my Sears Workmate in my garage (don't have a basement, backyard shed, or any other place), I spent last Saturday calibrating my powder dispenser and Sunday setting up my dies. I have "loaded" several empty cases in the process, and they look a lot like the factory loads, so I think I am good to go. However, two questions:

What do you use the fourth die for in the Hornady die set? I can readily identify the sizing/decapping, seating, and expander dies, but not the other one, which is one piece and has a hole all the way through it. I called the Hornady tech department, and my understanding is that it is used to push the entire case through to get it round again, in case it is a little oval? Is that correct? When do I need to use it, e.g., do I need to run every case through it just to check, or only those that may be visibly out of round? Since most other die sets only have three (or even two) dies, not sure if it is really necessary. BTW, the "instructions" that come with the die set don't even mention this die.

In setting the seating die, there is a lot involved in actually loading a bullet to the correct COL and then setting the crimp, then resetting the seating die body. Can I just put a factory cartridge in the die and adjust the seating die body and adjustment screw until they just apply pressure to the crimp and bullet on the factory cartridge?

Thanks for any advice.

That's the taper crimp die. Don't run your seating die up all the way to the crimp point as it imparts a roll crimp. It has long been established that you want a taper crimp, not a roll crimp. The further in you run the case into the taper crimp, the greater the crimp, so it can be overdone. Neck tension is the key to happiness. I strive for as much as possible without blemishing the bullet too much. I'm at work, but IIRC, the taper crimp insertion depth is supposed to be to where the mouth is reduced to like .478 or .479, but I use .476 and no problems catching the chamber neck lip. That having been said, go by what the book says until you get a good mind's eye view of how the cartridge behaves. The taper crimp is most effective if you catch a cannelure. The 250s don't have cannelures, so try to get as much neck tension (happiness) by not expanding the neck prior to starting the bullets. You're just stretching the mouth only to turn around and crimp it back down. That's a lot of working of the brass. The expander is to help the inexperienced start the bullet into the case so that they don't start it too crooked, or scrape the bullet jacket enough to impact accuracy. I'm just writing stuff as it comes to me so forgive the disjointed format. I'm sure others will share their pearls of wisdom as well. If you step back and look at the die set, it's kind of like a hasty pudding. Throw in one of each die whether you need it or not. The instruction booklet I got was suitable for lining the bottom of a bird cage. At the time, I was told that they had a real one in the making and it was just a matter of time before it got put in the box. I'd bet a dollar to a donut that it's still the same lame, generic booklet a year and a half later.

Hoot

[pitted bore]

What do you use the fourth die for in the Hornady die set? I can readily identify the sizing/decapping, seating, and expander dies, but not the other one, which is one piece and has a hole all the way through it. I called the Hornady tech department, and my understanding is that it is used to push the entire case through to get it round again, in case it is a little oval? Is that correct? When do I need to use it, e.g., do I need to run every case through it just to check, or only those that may be visibly out of round? Since most other die sets only have three (or even two) dies, not sure if it is really necessary. BTW, the "instructions" that come with the die set don't even mention this die..

Jim-
About that 4th die: Posts on this forum from its beginning have criticized Hornady for not offering an explanation for the fourth die, which is to apply a "taper crimp". Part of the criticism is because it's so easy to mess up a good reload if the user isn't familiar with function of 4-die set. And even with some familiarity, Hornady's taper crimp die operates differently than most taper crimp dies.

If the Hornady technician you talked with gave the impression that it's for some sort of push-through resizing, then the tech was misinformed or was miscommunicating; either way, bad form.

As Hoot said, the purpose of the die is to push the sides of the case mouth against the bullet to hold the bullet firmly in place. In particular, if the expander die is used to bell the case mouth, then the taper crimp die removes the belling.

Hoot was precisely correct in indicating a desired mouth diameter of 0.476" outside measurement. The problem with the Hornady die is that it can scrunch the mouth down rather more than that measurement. In some of my trials, it could reduce mouth diameter to 0.456 inches, which is way to small.

So, after your bullet is seated, measure the case mouth diameter. If it's more than 0.476", then use trial and error adjustment of the taper crimp die to produce that diameter. Start with the die too high in the press, and lower it gradually. It doesn't take much contact with the die to produce 0.476".

In setting the seating die, there is a lot involved in actually loading a bullet to the correct COL and then setting the crimp, then resetting the seating die body. Can I just put a factory cartridge in the die and adjust the seating die body and adjustment screw until they just apply pressure to the crimp and bullet on the factory cartridge?

If I'm reading this right, you have a major problem, and it's Hornady's fault for not including clear instructions for their seating die.

DO NOT USE THE SEATING DIE FOR CRIMPING. Hornady should not have included a crimping rim in the seating die. Adjust the seating die using an empty case; with the ram at full extension and the case in the shell holder, screw the seating die in until the crimping shoulder touches the case mouth, and then back out the die about a half turn and tighten the lock ring. Thereafter, only the bullet seating stem needs to be adjusted to provide proper seating depth.

The seating die crimp is a roll crimp, and it alters the length of the case. This can cause big problems with the 450B, which headspaces on the case mouth. A decrease in headspace can alter firing pin strike. It can also allow the case to be pushed forward into the chamber enough to possibly prevent adequate case mouth expansion on firing, which can drive pressures way up.

Hope this helps. If it's unclear, ask again. And if I've provided bad info, the real gurus will be along to sweep up the mess.
Good luck.
--Bob

[Jim in Houston]

As I understand it, I can skip the expander die, as long as I can seat the bullet reasonably straight in the case. The Hornady seating die is supposed to align the bullet as it is seated in the case, anyway. Then don't crimp with the seating die, but adjust the taper crimp die to get a neck diameter of .476.

Thanks Hoot and Bob. I will be traveling for a week, but when I get back, I will be trying your instructions.

BTW, I may have misunderstood the Hornady Tech about the taper crimp die. I am, afterall, one of the "inexperienced," (but you have to start somewhere) and I am working from manuals and videos, rather than having someone to provide me with the benefit of their experience (in person, that is).

Anyone else with suggestions, hop on in. I take directions well.

[pitted bore]

Jim-
Here are a couple of threads about crimping which might be helpful:

• which crimp?
  
• Notes about the Lee .45 Taper Crimp Die

--Bob

[wildcatter]

What do you use the fourth die for in the Hornady die set? I can readily identify the sizing/decapping, seating, and expander dies, but not the other one, which is one piece and has a hole all the way through it. I called the Hornady tech department, and my understanding is that it is used to push the entire case through to get it round again, in case it is a little oval? Is that correct? When do I need to use it, e.g., do I need to run every case through it just to check, or only those that may be visibly out of round? Since most other die sets only have three (or even two) dies, not sure if it is really necessary. BTW, the "instructions" that come with the die set don't even mention this die..

Jim-
About that 4th die: Posts on this forum from its beginning have criticized Hornady for not offering an explanation for the fourth die, which is to apply a "taper crimp". Part of the criticism is because it's so easy to mess up a good reload if the user isn't familiar with function of 4-die set. And even with some familiarity, Hornady's taper crimp die operates differently than most taper crimp dies.

If the Hornady technician you talked with gave the impression that it's for some sort of push-through resizing, then the tech was misinformed or was miscommunicating; either way, bad form.

As Hoot said, the purpose of the die is to push the sides of the case mouth against the bullet to hold the bullet firmly in place. In particular, if the expander die is used to bell the case mouth, then the taper crimp die removes the belling.

Hoot was precisely correct in indicating a desired mouth diameter of 0.476" outside measurement. The problem with the Hornady die is that it can scrunch the mouth down rather more than that measurement below that. In some of my trials, it could reduce mouth diameter to 0.456 inches, which is way to small.

So, after your bullet is seated, measure the case mouth diameter. If it's more than 0.476", then use trial and error adjustment of the taper crimp die to produce that diameter. Start with the die too high in the press, and lower it gradually. It doesn't take much contact with the die to produce 0.476".

In setting the seating die, there is a lot involved in actually loading a bullet to the correct COL and then setting the crimp, then resetting the seating die body. Can I just put a factory cartridge in the die and adjust the seating die body and adjustment screw until they just apply pressure to the crimp and bullet on the factory cartridge?

If I'm reading this right, you have a major problem, and it's Hornady's fault for not including clear instructions for their seating die.

DO NOT USE THE SEATING DIE FOR CRIMPING. Hornady should not have included a crimping rim in the seating die. Adjust the seating die using an empty case; with the ram at full extension and the case in the shell holder, screw the seating die in until the crimping shoulder touches the case mouth, and then back out the die about a half turn and tighten the lock ring. Thereafter, only the bullet seating stem needs to be adjusted to provide proper seating depth.

The seating die crimp is a roll crimp, and it alters the length of the case. This can cause big problems with the 450B, which headspaces on the case mouth. A decrease in headspace can alter firing pin strike. It can also allow the case to be pushed forward into the chamber enough to possibly prevent adequate case mouth expansion on firing, which can drive pressures way up.

Hope this helps. If it's unclear, ask again. And if I've provided bad info, the real gurus will be along to sweep up the mess. Looks like you and the Hoot are the real gurus and have it wrapped up. I myself, expand slightly anyways, just to make sure the bullet can't crunch the brass while seating. Yup, I can be Ham-Handled at times..t
Good luck.
--Bob