taper crimp die

[Texas Sheepdawg]

The Chrony is a key tool with me now. I hope I don't blow mine up.
I am using a 20" barrel so I don't know how my loads will shoot in a 16". But I think GunNut is using a 16" and my recipe evolved from his loads. I just added the side crimp to get the powder cooking better.

[LlindeX]

Side Crimp looks good, Dawg. I see it looks as though you've even saved the trimmings off the original die to make the height adjustment washers. Approx. How many rounds have you loaded with it so far? Have you found the adjustable height to be worth having? At present, I can only see myself loading some 230gr FMJ, 200gr FTX, 225gr FTX, and 250gr FTX. And if I ever win the lottery, some of those chunks of gold put out by Barnes. They look VERY interesting, but way beyond what I can justify spending. Now, if I could ever convince my better half that I needed to go to Alaska, maybe, just maybe, she'd let me by some of them to use for Bear protection. But then again, she might just tell me to take my 223 upper???

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Those little adjustment rings were icing on a gift cake. 3 different rings. I use my #1 & #2 ring together. Never thought about it but I guess I should measure them.
I have only been reloading the 230s. But I am about to load some 250 Grain Deep Curls, so I may side crimp a hand full to check performance if I experience sooting issues.

[wildcatter]

Side Crimp looks good, Dawg. I see it looks as though you've even saved the trimmings off the original die to make the height adjustment washers. Approx. How many rounds have you loaded with it so far? Have you found the adjustable height to be worth having? At present, I can only see myself loading some 230gr FMJ, 200gr FTX, 225gr FTX, and 250gr FTX. And if I ever win the lottery, some of those chunks of gold put out by Barnes. They look VERY interesting, but way beyond what I can justify spending. Now, if I could ever convince my better half that I needed to go to Alaska, maybe, just maybe, she'd let me by some of them to use for Bear protection. But then again, she might just tell me to take my 223 upper???

LOL!! So, your wifey knows something we don't??

Now.. That's The LeGendre Side Crimp and you're also supposed to comment on how much he looks like Brad Pit and isn't he the Body Double for the Rock?

OK, OK, so he's more like Shemp Howard and a belated Welcome to our Campfire. Just protect your 'Smores, the Dawg is lurking around here somewhere.

OK, guys, some thoughts on shims. I've been using "Shoulder Bolt Shims" lately. They are ground to specific thicknesses and various ID/OD's. They are expensive (a buck, two or three, if bought individually), but you won't need many. I buy several at .005, .015, & .032" thicknesses and combine them accordingly, as the different bullets are used (In other words, one LSC does not necessarily work for all bullets and being able to easily adjust the LSC is very helpful.). When you cut your Lee die, if you don't get it close enough to the actual final dia you were seeking, then indeed a thick washer can put you back into the ball-park, then using the shims, will score the grand-slam. This will give you an idea of what I'm talking about.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V54MjUfIlpg ..

..t

[Hoot]

Tim did you see the follow-up to my original modding thread with images? I put it up a few weeks ago and plugged it in a couple of places.

http://www.450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=685#p4569

It details shortening the Lee 45-70 FCD collet in steps as opposed ot one big cut, to yield shims of varying thickness. They can be combined to achieve just about any dimensional placement of the crimp.

The result looks like this:



Hoot

[LlindeX]

Wildcatter,

Sorry 'bout that: I just didn't recall how to spell LeGendre that late at night! However, my guess would be that anyone taking the time to read this thread would also have an excellent idea who LeGendre is, and thus would know who is the "Father of the 450B Side-Crimp".

At any rate, I'm glad you have weighed-in. You're just the expert I wanted to get an opinion from. Do you see any inherent hazards in the methodology I'm using to obtain more neck tension with the .451" 230gr FMJ's. I doubt that it is as good as the Legendary LeGendre Side Crimp (LLSC), but since I don't have access to anyone who has the tools to mod. my 45-70 die; it seems to me to be the next best way to "skin the cat". Do you have any opinions on this? Am I playing with fire? Are there hazards or issues I'm unaware of? Will I drastically reduce the life-span of my brass?

I'm the overly cautious type, and plan to work upward very slowly with my powder charges. However, with a whapingly large sample set of six, it does look like I'm getting a good grip on the bullets & still maintaining a .476 case lip for proper headspace retention. Unless there are obvious hazards I'm unaware of, I plan to continue my testing of the "45 Colt neck-sizing" method until I'm fortunate enough to find someone to help me with your suggested mods to my 45-70 Lee Factory Crimp die, at which time I too can switch to using the LLSC.

[wildcatter]

Tim did you see the follow-up to my original modding thread with images? I put it up a few weeks ago and plugged it in a couple of places.

http://www.450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=685#p4569

It details shortening the Lee 45-70 FCD collet in steps as opposed ot one big cut, to yield shims of varying thickness. They can be combined to achieve just about any dimensional placement of the crimp.

The result looks like this:

[ http://i50.tinypic.com/2lm5nib.jpg ]

Hoot

Yes, I did, and I "Really-Real" like your work, you have immensely helped our guys here. The use of shims, after doing your Mods, which is what I have always used, that is, in adjusting the lee die closer to final needs, and then using shims for different amounts of crimps or locations, letting the bullet dictate, the needs..

..t

[wildcatter]

Wildcatter,

Sorry 'bout that: I just didn't recall how to spell LeGendre that late at night! However, my guess would be that anyone taking the time to read this thread would also have an excellent idea who LeGendre is, and thus would know who is the "Father of the 450B Side-Crimp".

At any rate, I'm glad you have weighed-in. You're just the expert I wanted to get an opinion from. Do you see any inherent hazards in the methodology I'm using to obtain more neck tension with the .451" 230gr FMJ's. I doubt that it is as good as the Legendary LeGendre Side Crimp (LLSC), but since I don't have access to anyone who has the tools to mod. my 45-70 die; it seems to me to be the next best way to "skin the cat". Do you have any opinions on this? Am I playing with fire? Are there hazards or issues I'm unaware of? Will I drastically reduce the life-span of my brass?

I'm the overly cautious type, and plan to work upward very slowly with my powder charges. However, with a whapingly large sample set of six, it does look like I'm getting a good grip on the bullets & still maintaining a .476 case lip for proper headspace retention. Unless there are obvious hazards I'm unaware of, I plan to continue my testing of the "45 Colt neck-sizing" method until I'm fortunate enough to find someone to help me with your suggested mods to my 45-70 Lee Factory Crimp die, at which time I too can switch to using the LLSC.

No, I don't see any real inherent problems with your methodology. You have to figure, that there are some minor differences with the various die sets, meaning the +- standards. As long as you are reliably picking up the case mouth with the chamber lip, then sometimes we have to uses "Alternative", measures to get the job done. Just keep open to other suggestions, from our guys, as I do, and I do it with a great deal of Awe (And most of theses guys do-not think of themselves as experts, I think differently)..

..t

[Hoot]

Continuing on with LlindeX's great idea and on the heals of a spotty outing I had earlier today, here is some aspects to the TightNeck case preparation he thought of.

I did not have a .45 Long Colt dies set, but I did have a .45 ACP one, so I figured I'd fiddle around with it. As Llindex observed, due to shorter pistol caliber dies versus the long 450B brass, there is a challenge getting the same amount of case shouldered down with each one processed. That is due to the fact that you can not screw the pistol dies out far enough so that you achieve the length of shouldering at the top of the ram stroke with the 450B case. Easy fix. Get a longer decapping stem from some other Lee rifle caliber die set and adjust it to limit how far up the case travels into the shouldering die before it stops. Of course, I didn't have a Lee die for a longer rifle caliber, so I just used a similar diameter piece of rod stock I had in one of the junk boxes. I just adjusted the insertion depth of the case to shoulder it the distance that in this case, the Barnes 275gr XPB bullet seats, ran the rod down until it hit the top of the case web inside and locked it down to serve as a limiter.

For my set of 450B dies, they resize brass to an OD of .474 at the mouth. Seating a bullet stretches the mouth a little and I usually then follow up with a pass through the Taper Crimp to take it back down near .476. In the following image I have a normally resized piece of brass next to one ran through my .45 ACP to the depth of the 275 XPB bullet. The .45 ACP die shoulders the brass down to .468 OD and you can see it as well as feel it when you slide your fingers over it.



The resulting case mouth OD with the 275 XPB seated was a beautiful .476



This yielded a stronger and more consistent seating resistance than just seating into the normally resized case.

As for my concern of whether the case would stretch around the bullet as it seated, or whether the bullet, being made of a softer metal would squeeze down as it got seated was abated when I pulled the bullet and measured it. This particular one started out at .45130 at it's widest point and after pulling it from the TightNeck case, it was .45115 at the widest point. So NBD. An important note: With a softer cup and core style bullet, this may not automatically be the case and you'll have to try one and remeasure it to make sure. My gut feeling is aside from the plated style jackets, which are not necessarily a good idea in this caliber anyway, it'll be ok. Working the case mouth brass and additional .008 inches repeatedly may require drawing or annealing it every now and then to keep it from work hardening, depending upon how many times you reload your 450B brass before it gets too deteriorated.

I have briefly mentioned this in Part 2 of my thread "More Barnes 275 XPB" Here.

Your thoughts?

Hoot