450Bushmaster.net

New 450B guy here. Loving the round so far. Got a RAR with 16" barrel. Of course it shoots lights out with the hornady black ammo.

I started trying out some cast loads in it though. With there being relatively little data I am approaching it like a lot of other guns I shoot cast in.

I have the NOE 285gr mold, solid nose. I am putting a gas check on them and then powder coating them. Final weight is right at 290gr.

I started loads with 31gr of Lilgun and worked my way up to 33gr so far. I was mostly testing velocity, but did notice that the 31gr started out with a decent group, then it opened up and then closed back when I got to 33gr. Also, the groups started out about point of aim, then crept higher and higher, then came back down at the 33gr.

31gr-1829fps avg
31.5gr-1773ps avg - I think something was amiss here.
32gr-1866fps avg
32.5-1929fps avg
33-1889fps avg - I think something was off here too because I ran back up to the loading room to load another round because the group seemed like it was getting tighter. When I shot it, sure enough, the group was getting tighter, but the chronograph did not pick up the shot. Running too low on light I guess.

Here is a picture of the cases.https://drive.google.com/file/d/12220RjRllkbPHuidm6I_nbJt33F-U48w/view?usp=sharing The bottom row is 31, the top is 33. The one on the right is a factory hornady black.

My question is, I am not seeing any pressure, and knowing that Hodgdon lists 35.4gr of lilgun as top load for the 275gr all copper brands, it seems like I could go higher still?

Two reasons for me wanting to go higher is mainly because it seems like the group is getting tighter and coming back to point of aim. Second is It would be really nice to get about 2000fps out of this load(if it is accurate) because I want to take this gun elk hunting next year.

I know you all have way more experience, and I am currently looking at all the threads about pressures, but thought I would throw this out there to see what others might have to say. Thanks!

Well, I don't much about shooting cast bullets. Looking at your brass though, it looks like you're not showing pressure signs. One thing you need to check is case head growth and length change. If the case head grows too much on one firing, you're usually pushing pressures, or past them. As to case length, it usually shrinks, but on one of my work up's, I experienced growth (in an AR), and that can cause it's own set of issues. The bolt guns are stronger, so you can lean on them more, but you still want to track what the brass is doing. I would use once or second fired brass, that wasn't leaned on, to test.

Thanks for the reply.

I've heard that checking case head size is a hit and miss. I'll keep an eye on it, and the case length though.

I have looked a lot this weekend and cannot seem to find much in the way of overpressure signs in the bolt action. Saw just a couple, but not much information associated with it.

Has anyone ever seen a flattened primer before on the case?

I wonder if there is a way to run numbers in quickloads software and get a general idea.

One thing that I am curious about is if the 15grains of bullet weight would mean much in regards of comparing my powder coated bullet to the Barnes bullet.

I'm shooting the same rifle as you, except with the 22" barrel. While I haven't tested any bullets in your mentioned weight range, I have done a lot of testing with 300gr bullets made by Hornady (xtp's and xtp mag's) and Speer deep curls. I'd estimate in the area of 300-400 rounds of that weight, I have never been able to get it to shoot a good group. Lighter bullets, it will shoot lights out. I've tried 5 different powders, two different primers, different crimps, different lengths and nothing seams to make a difference.. All that being said, during my testing, I worked up a set of loads that took me to 10gr over published data with Lil Gun in search of a load that would shoot good from the gun, but to no avail. I did not see any pressure signs what so ever. It took many rounds at max data, and slowly over many months, working up 1/2gr at a time, to eventually get to that mega charge. To date, my most consistently accurate loads have come with the Hornady 225FTX bullet using Lil Gun and IMR 4227. Unfortunately, those bullets are not the best or ideal choice for taking game. Best of luck in your hunt for an accurate load, hope this helps.

Decoy Defender wrote:I'm shooting the same rifle as you, except with the 22" barrel. While I haven't tested any bullets in your mentioned weight range, I have done a lot of testing with 300gr bullets made by Hornady (xtp's and xtp mag's) and Speer deep curls. I'd estimate in the area of 300-400 rounds of that weight, I have never been able to get it to shoot a good group. Lighter bullets, it will shoot lights out. I've tried 5 different powders, two different primers, different crimps, different lengths and nothing seams to make a difference.. All that being said, during my testing, I worked up a set of loads that took me to 10gr over published data with Lil Gun in search of a load that would shoot good from the gun, but to no avail. I did not see any pressure signs what so ever. It took many rounds at max data, and slowly over many months, working up 1/2gr at a time, to eventually get to that mega charge. To date, my most consistently accurate loads have come with the Hornady 225FTX bullet using Lil Gun and IMR 4227. Unfortunately, those bullets are not the best or ideal choice for taking game. Best of luck in your hunt for an accurate load, hope this helps.

Thank you. This actually does help a lot. It tells me that typical signs are probably just not going to show up for me.

I have high hopes for this cast bullet. I cannot find a whole lot of information about it still, but I do know that it was designed specifically after the hornady 250gr ftx bullet. Of course it is a bit heavier because it does not have the copper jacket. The profile is the same except not having a pointed tip.

I'm going to creep up a little and see if I cannot tighten the groups. I have a sneaky suspicion that it may only be the next step up from where I am at. I'll be sure to post here when I find the load.