powders for 450

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Re: powders for 450

Postby 450pwr » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:19 pm

Thanks for the warm welcome and all the replies>>> :D I'm really looking forward a big bore AR rifle and Hunting with it soon! I have everything on order and hope to get it up and shooting next week. I'm sure I will have more question to come later :roll: Thanks for your time and Happy Holidays.. :mrgreen:
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Re: powders for 450

Postby BobbyJ » Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:19 am

wildcatter wrote:Yes Robin, 2400 is in the 4100, fast area, +-, and is an excellent powder for the lighter bullets. But again, if speed isn't the absolute end all, 2400, will stop the sooting, and give slower speeds, than you are used to, with bullets in the 230-325 realm. Even with those slower speeds, there is enough residual Umph, to get any job done and accuracy is off the rector-scale. Wanna see 1/4 MOA @200yds? Use Hoots suggestions on crimping and use either 250gr FTX's or better yet use the 200gr Barnes XPB's (http://barnesbullets.myshopify.com/prod ... fb-460-s-w) or better still, use the Barnes 275gr (http://barnesbullets.myshopify.com/prod ... fb-460-s-w) with 1680. I was rewarded with sub 1/4 moa @200yds. with these and I think one should really try 2400 with them as well. Speed won't be so great, but world record groups might be in the offing and you'll still easily kill everything out there.

Fyi, though I like my crimp the best (The LeGendre-Side-Crimp), over-all, for getting the powder to cook well, before the bullet leaves the case, Hoot has better suggestions for Barn-Stormer Accuracy Crimps, for when a warm-fuzzy is better than a Group Hug..

..t

I'm just getting into reloading and have a new Dillon xl650. Reading the ABC reloading book. I got the Hornady 450 dies but not decided on a power yet. I ordered 240gr hornady and 275gr Barnes bullets to start with. I probably will not use bullets under 240gr.

For powders I'm not sure what to start with. Lil gun, h100 or 1680. All my 450 guns are Bolt (no ARs) so they can handle hotter loads than the 38,000. I can't seem to find any info on powders with higher pressures than 38,000. I did buy some expensive copper bear creak 240gr (2550fps) and did not have any issues. Not sure what powder they used but I would like to sort of match that performance if possible.

Is 1680 the way to go? oh also will be reloading 204 ruger, 7.62 x SKS, MOSINs, etc.

Not ready to do anything yet still in the reading phase but I don't think the books have much info on 450BM loads on bolt guns, seems its for AR only.
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Re: powders for 450

Postby Bmt85 » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:59 am

Well, the 450B was deisned for the AR platform, so all load data is going to be capped at 38-40K. So going past that, your probably going to test multiple powders for yourself. If your going above 40K, you can still use the same powders, just a little more of it. It might be beneficial to run a slightly slower powder, but probably not much slower. Some members have tried full charges of 1680 under some 275gr-300gr bullets, and the 1680 still didn't get a full burn. For typical bullet weights, Lilgun and 296 are the most popular. Slower powders that could work are 4227, 4198, SBR Socom (suppose to be a little faster than 4198) might be a good one to try. I think some were using 300mp with the 275 TSX loaded long with good results. Maybe even Shooters World Blackout for the heavier bullets, it's suppose to be a little faster then 1680 and get better velocities. I tested it a little with the 275 TSX and had a ton of unburnt powder, but didn't run it up to max.

Couple things to think about it if pushing past book data, though. One is to keep a close eye on your brass. For me, Hornady seems to hold up better than Starline, but I have still worked up loads that nuked Hornady brass within 1 or 2 firings, in an AR. So I don't think it will hold up to say 55-60K. Two, depending on barrel length, you might not gain a whole lot pushing a stout load. Some members who have done load workup in 16" barrels, see steady gains, but then hit a point where they have a 2-3gr spread with no velocity change. So they have maxed out a 16" barrel.
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Re: powders for 450

Postby BobbyJ » Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:08 pm

Thanks for the info. Yes I'm trying to learn from people that have loaded for the 450BM. The 240gr shoot 2500+ from my 16.5" Gunsite scout. No brass issues at all. But that is from factory $3.00 per bullet round. They did all the testing and found a great combo. Just don't know what powder they used and how much. They told me the pressures were well under the max for the .308 action which my gun has but failed to give a real world number. 40,000 psi? 50,000 PSI? I think the issue with ARs is putting a hotter load in over gases it and maybe tries to extract the case before its shrunk back from the sides of the chamber.

The company I bought them from offers two lines of 450 BM bullets. AR and Bolt only.
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Re: powders for 450

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:13 pm

My opinion is to stick with LilGun and 1680 until you get some experience with the round under your belt. That’s just my .02
It’s not just the difference between semi auto and a bolt action/single action. You have twist rate differences which come into play in a big way with this round. Never shoot my AR hot loads in a 1:16” barrel of any length. I think I’ve already shown what happens there. Always work up your own load for your gun only.
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Re: powders for 450

Postby BobbyJ » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:30 am

I have already shot many rounds from my gun at 2550fps 240gr.

I know it can handle what ever load is in it. My twist rate is 1/16 and had zero issues with heat or the brass, looks no different than the hornady. I don't shoot one after another like some with ARs do, its a bolt and heating up due to higher velocity + 1/16 has not been a issue so far.

No Im not going to try to hit that load on the first shot. I know its been done in a factory load.
I won't be in uncharted territory because I already have the ammo that does it and works fine with my gun.

The unknown is the powder they used. I suppose I could pull one of the bullets and weigh the powder, take a photo of it and even flash test it for burn rate.

So the goal is just to come close to matching already readily available factory ammo that has a 240gr .26 BC at 2400 to 2500 fps.

1. Early goal is just to get acquainted with the round and load cheaper 240gr interlocks at low loads.

2. Final goal is to match the ammo I already have and shoot with a 240gr higher BC copper bullet.

This is well under what someone else on this forum did with s 2800+ fps and 4000 ft pounds. I think he said he ran out of room to put more powder in and still did not have issues with the gun. I don't intend to go that far, but a little more than AR loads.
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Re: powders for 450

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:35 am

BobbyJ wrote:I have already shot many rounds from my gun at 2550fps 240gr.

I know it can handle what ever load is in it. My twist rate is 1/16 and had zero issues with heat or the brass, looks no different than the hornady. I don't shoot one after another like some with ARs do, its a bolt and heating up due to higher velocity + 1/16 has not been a issue so far.

No Im not going to try to hit that load on the first shot. I know its been done in a factory load.
I won't be in uncharted territory because I already have the ammo that does it and works fine with my gun.

The unknown is the powder they used. I suppose I could pull one of the bullets and weigh the powder, take a photo of it and even flash test it for burn rate.

So the goal is just to come close to matching already readily available factory ammo that has a 240gr .26 BC at 2400 to 2500 fps.

1. Early goal is just to get acquainted with the round and load cheaper 240gr interlocks at low loads.

2. Final goal is to match the ammo I already have and shoot with a 240gr higher BC copper bullet.

This is well under what someone else on this forum did with s 2800+ fps and 4000 ft pounds. I think he said he ran out of room to put more powder in and still did not have issues with the gun. I don't intend to go that far, but a little more than AR loads.


I think that was Wildcatter that pushed the 230 FMJ to 2800fps in his lab.
In other words, Timothy LeGendre in his ballistics lab. AKA, The father of the 450 Bushmaster.
No way would I push that speed. LOL.
I did my 2700+FPS quite by accident. It was spooky.
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Re: powders for 450

Postby BobbyJ » Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:12 am

Texas Sheepdawg wrote:
BobbyJ wrote:I have already shot many rounds from my gun at 2550fps 240gr.

I know it can handle what ever load is in it. My twist rate is 1/16 and had zero issues with heat or the brass, looks no different than the hornady. I don't shoot one after another like some with ARs do, its a bolt and heating up due to higher velocity + 1/16 has not been a issue so far.

No Im not going to try to hit that load on the first shot. I know its been done in a factory load.
I won't be in uncharted territory because I already have the ammo that does it and works fine with my gun.

The unknown is the powder they used. I suppose I could pull one of the bullets and weigh the powder, take a photo of it and even flash test it for burn rate.

So the goal is just to come close to matching already readily available factory ammo that has a 240gr .26 BC at 2400 to 2500 fps.

1. Early goal is just to get acquainted with the round and load cheaper 240gr interlocks at low loads.

2. Final goal is to match the ammo I already have and shoot with a 240gr higher BC copper bullet.

This is well under what someone else on this forum did with s 2800+ fps and 4000 ft pounds. I think he said he ran out of room to put more powder in and still did not have issues with the gun. I don't intend to go that far, but a little more than AR loads.


I think that was Wildcatter that pushed the 230 FMJ to 2800fps in his lab.
In other words, Timothy LeGendre in his ballistics lab. AKA, The father of the 450 Bushmaster.
No way would I push that speed. LOL.
I did my 2700+FPS quite by accident. It was spooky.


Wow 2700 yea that is pushing the envelope. I think I could settle for 2300-2400.

If i can come within 100fps of a factory round I will be happy. But that factory round pushes a 240gt .26 bc to 2550 fps. 3400 fpe or so.
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